Samantha Spittle 0:00
It's funny, because, you know, this last month was parenting, we talked about parenting, right. And, you know, one of the overarching themes was to stay curious throughout your parenting journey. And of course, the parenting journey never ends, because you became you becoming a parent of adults, you know, your, your children are now adults. And then there's this whole other phase of life where, you know, you just add a new beginning and kind of walking through that a combination of the feelings, the experiences, and then things you can do to kind of, you know, enjoy this next chapter. And right,

Jill Perla 0:38
in that it is the next chapter. And that's exactly what it is. And I know, I'm just like, with anything, if you don't know what the next chapter is, and you're creating it, there's fear around it. And I think that's okay. But there's a lot of shame in you know, since this fleshing it out, there's shame in not knowing what your next steps are. And I think that's where me going back to beginning the year in February. It's not that I didn't know what I wanted to do. I felt like I needed some time, because I wasn't, I feel like I'm shifting, things are shifting, and I'm allowing for that. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. But at the same time there is fear around not knowing exactly what the next step is, and, but possibility at the same time. And I think that's where some people, you know, that's the cup half full, half, empty sort of thing. You know, I think that there's tons of possibilities out there. And it's just a matter of, ooh, which direction do I want to take? Do I want chocolate or vanilla? There's no rhyme or source swirl? Exactly. And I think, for me, personally, it's always been keeping the creative juices flowing, that helps me solve these problems. And I think that's my biggest thrust for other people is making sure they stay creative in whatever endeavors they do. So that they have the, you know, an open mind to be able to accept what's coming at them, because they might think they want to do one thing, but something totally different comes at them. And sometimes they resist it, when they should be embracing it.

Samantha Spittle 2:27
Oh, that's a beautiful intro to jumping into talking about this idea of aging and change and trying new things. So why don't you introduce yourself a returning guest, Jill Perla?

Jill Perla 2:41
Yeah. Well, thanks for having me, Samantha, I really appreciate it. So I have been painting full professionally for gosh, about 12 years now. Quick stories start up painting after I had been working in business for 25 years in DC, you know, doing the hustle bustle, I started painting because my dad, he started doing art years ago when he was doing art therapy at his day away camp. And he had Alzheimer's. So in an effort to help him feel at peace and calm, he painted and he drew in his stay away camps. And when I saw him do that, I thought he and I are cut from the same cloth we're so similar, I'm going to pick up that paintbrush and give it a whirl because he was actually pretty good. Fast forward to today I've been painting and selling artwork as a full time career ever since, um, which is kind of crazy. But um, it's it's crazy good. And it's been my passion for all these years. And it still is. Creating art is a driving force. In my every day, if I could just paint every single day I'd wake up, you know, happy but as you know it how life goes. Sometimes you have to actually get groceries and you know, do the mundane things in life.

Samantha Spittle 4:04
Yes. things well, it's exciting to have you back because we, you know, as I said, a returning guest in the first episode. So go back and listen, we talked more about your journey and kind of how you got into all that. And when you and I spoke earlier about kind of this season three in the shame triggers, you know, we talked about aging and how the seasons of our life the chapters change. And, you know, last month we talked about parenting and staying curious when you're parenting. And as you and I were talking it was like we have to stay curious throughout our whole life because it's so easy to get into these lanes or boxes or something and you know as you being an almost empty nester become you know, having an adult children. Suddenly it's your life completely shifts. And that can be scary and I'm not there yet, but I know for having friends that have started to make the transition. There's a lot of emotions. that go into that. So I'd love to kind of dive in and hear from your perspective, because I know having that creative outlet has been not only helpful for if you're into creativity, but like the lessons you learned along the way, were really helpful. So

Jill Perla 5:14
oh, I mean, absolutely. I mean, honestly, some people when they're dealing with being an empty nester, I know a lot of people, they might move, they might downsize, they might do that, and, you know, move to Florida, for example, or, you know, just uproot and do that sort of thing. And I'm not quite there yet. But um, I think that, it's good to kind of sit back and analyze and see kind of where you're at, and where you're, you're, you want to go. And in Think of your life, almost, I always kind of structure it kind of as a little business in a way I look at my five year plan, my 10 year plan, you know, kind of where would I really love to be in 10 years? And, and to realize that, you know, it's funny, because when I was younger, I would look at somebody who's my age at 55. and think, oh, my gosh, they're old as hell, what? They're so old, you know, they may as well as to stop at do it. And it's funny, because now that I'm older, I'm like, wait, this, this is young, this is young, I'm not, I'm not old, I've got plenty of life in it. But you know, a lot of people are retiring. And, you know, that is just not anything that is really of interest to me, I know. And, you know, back to parenting, everything from business to parenting, everything starts shifting, and especially in parenting, you start looking at your kids as adults, and that is so different, because they're making decisions on their own. And they're making their life decisions. And you just kind of have to take a little bit of a backseat and watch and be there when they're ready to say, hey, I need help, or I love advice. But it is really a fine line of being to, to up in their business. Or right because then they start shutting down. And you know, I always want that really open dialogue with with my kids.

Samantha Spittle 7:17
Yeah, the healthy detachment. That's what podcast guest and VIP dog ish year talks a lot about. And I love that idea of the healthy detachment. Because, you know, as moms and stuff, we want to be so attached. But of course, as we get older, they get older, and those dynamics change. And I think we talked about it before we were recording, but talked about, as our kids get older, and we start getting to this new stage of life, it can be exciting, it can be scary. And I would love to hear how you're starting to navigate that and, and how the choices you've made. You know, we talked on the first episode about getting into art. And that was something you know, that was kind of like a second career. That was a definitely a second career for you. And I think so much you I'm sure you learned so that maybe this next season is more hopeful. Curious?

Jill Perla 8:08
Oh, absolutely. I think the I learn a lot about myself through painting and through the canvas. I mean, a lot of people all right. And for me, it's painting. And that's where I'm in the group that I have. It's creative, kickstart where I have people that are similar in age, you know, maybe 40s 50s 60s. And I teach them how to paint and I'm really not teaching them necessarily how to paint, but how to let go, and how to create and really experience what I experienced through painting. And what I did, you know, 1213 years ago now, giving up the standard of working at a nine to five job opening up my own business and creating my own life was pivotal. And it was really helpful for my kids to see me do that because it allowed them to see that their life doesn't have to be cookie cutter. It doesn't have to be this way. You know, they don't if they don't want to go to college, of course, I'm encouraging them to go to college because I think that's a good foundation. But if they've got another plan, that's, that's better for them. I'm all ears. And I think that's where

Unknown Speaker 9:30
learning through talking to the

Jill Perla 9:35
kids and really engaging with them. But also having my own outlet has been huge because if as a parent, I don't care what what part of the process you're in, whether it's you know, still raising little kids in there running around. You have got to keep your eye on who you are, as a parent as an individual forget the parent part as as an individual because, you know at the end of the day De when they're grown up, and you've done your job as a parent, which you'll never not be a parent, you'll always worry about them. But the role shifts and it changes a little bit and, and you do have that healthy detachment, like you're saying, and you have to be able to have something for yourself to lean into and do and be proud of, because your life isn't your child's life. It is your life, and you're creating it. And I think society over time has caused women in particular, to not allow themselves or afford themselves the ability to have something that's only theirs. Because I think people think that that's Oh, don't be selfish. Don't you know, don't think about yourself, you've got to think about the kids. And I'm not talking about, you know, going out and spending boatloads of money and in being lavish and being silly about things I'm talking about. Take 10 minutes out of the day. Yeah, you know if that's all you can do, and really reconnect with yourself. And for me, it was painting, it could be writing, it could be taking a walk anything that if you don't reconnect you, you're gonna have nothing left in you. And when the kids are all grown up, you've got you're kind of like, ooh, now what?

Samantha Spittle 11:21
Yeah, I think that's so common. And it's so funny, you were talking about the hobbies? I could have easily said here a year ago, and I would have said, Yeah, you know, women need something for themselves. And I have some stuff for myself, you know, so I'm not in that boat, you know, then, you know, you take a step back of life and look and think. And I remember talking to my husband, so with the podcast, you know, it started as like I called it like a passion project. And it was kind of I thought, you know, okay, that's my way of protecting myself in case it's a flop, you know, from a business perspective. Yes. And then, you know, feeling this pressure. And I've said, you know, for a while now, because the podcast, I feel like pretty much saved. My marriage, my health, my family, everything. It's, it's been so good to us personally. So if nothing else comes of it. Yeah, it's worth it. So that all being said, it's like, My words are all there. But now cut to my husband, we were talking about buying something, and basically spending money for the podcast. And, you know, we were able, you know, thankfully, we had our sponsor, the first two seasons and able to kind of pay for this hobby is kind of the way I always looked at it. Well, then it becomes Wait, if you know if it's a business, if you're putting money into it, what do we need? And I just was having such a hard time spending money, like anything extra than like bare bones. And he said, Well, there's nothing wrong with spending money on it. Like if you enjoy it, if I enjoy it, if we enjoy it. It doesn't matter if it's like moneymaker not and I thought, oh my gosh, I because back in my when I worked with women, you know, doing Mary Kay and everything. I had this similar conversation about women kind of losing themselves. And I thought, well, that's definitely not me, because I found myself before I had kids, right? And now my husband wants to buy a camera for the computer and I'm like, Oh, we don't need to spend any money. And he said, Well, if even if it's just a hobby, there's nothing wrong with having a hobby. It's what if you just wanted to go do something for fun? And I thought, Oh my gosh.

Jill Perla 13:37
Right. Right. It's it's so nice that your husband's feeling that way too. Yes, I know. It's unfortunate because a lot of husbands are like, a little bit more rigid and sometimes the wants are a little bit cringy Yeah. And but you know, it's funny because you know, I think a lot of times people are you know, I know there are a lot of husbands out there that play golf all the time. They don't mind buying a nine iron or whatever and spending however much on it and they don't think twice about it. But I think again it's a it's a money mom, wife thing you know it just is that oh gosh, I don't know should I well you know what you do only live once in what you write and if it provides you joy that's the deal and hobbies it's funny I know growing up I used to think of the word hobby is so trivial and kind of silly because I you know it's working as like you don't make it money doing this like hobbies whatever that's that's stupid hobbies are dumb. But now like wait a second people hobbies are a lifeline if they are a lifeline and it comes in such a different thing. Some somebody might want to paint furniture as a hobby. Some people might want to take computers or card as a hobby. A hobby. Not just scrapbooking, a hobby is whatever you like to do wiggling. I don't care if you know anything redecorating. But I think the key is to get something that charges you up, that gets you moving, whether it makes you money or not. I totally agree with that. But again, it's easy to give advice. But when you're in it, you're like, Oh, I really want to buy that, you know, drafting table. I should I, you know, you have this really weird thing, but you won't, you won't worry about spending 1000s of dollars on a new car. You know, I mean, it's, it's just how society places

Samantha Spittle 15:36
necessity versus you know, the needs and wants. And it's so funny. I kind of joked for years about how I have no hobbies. I mean, ever since I was a kid and who knows what, you know, all that's tied to, I always joked talking to people was my hobby, and which is why I started a podcast and so Zack like, it's so funny how all this roundabout like, oh, wait, I joke that this is my hobby. But wait, is it? What if it really is just my hobby? Is that enough? Is that okay? Is it okay? If I spend my time doing something that's not productive, or that feels productive in the sense of making money or doing this, but it is productive. Because if it's making me happy, my family happy, you know us healthier and happier than swell. And

Jill Perla 16:20
see that's a thing because it you know, and back to aging, it's the same thing. It doesn't matter that doesn't change you. If you have a hobby now, or when you're older. It's always going to serve you and you. And I really think it's funny, because years and years ago, I was one of five kids in the family. And I was one kid that my mom decided I was going to try everything guitar lessons, piano lessons, dance lessons, you name it, because she felt like I needed something because I was extraordinarily shy. And I'm curious by nature, so I dove into all these different things. And I think you've got to keep that curiosity growing going your entire life. Because if you don't, then you just you just kind of shrivel up. And it just becomes a life of kind of stale and flat. If you if you have curiosity, you're constantly it could be curious about learning about world history, or art history or stuff that I might be like, Yeah, I'm not so sure about that. Right. But other people might think, Hey, I'm going and I'm going to try it. And if that charges you up, go for it. And just never sit, you know, it's the old adage of never stop learning. But there's something to be said for that. I think when you stay curious, conversations are better, life's better. It's funny, I tend to be at this will circle back, I tend to have, like, acquaintances, lots and lots of acquaintances, lots of friends, but I have a best friend, I've always had like one best friend, there's always been, you know, big kind of come and go, you know, they're seasonal. But the the best friend, that's my best friend now that's, you know, been around for about 10 years now. She and I have these conversations that we will go on these wild tangents. And you know about the world or news and, and I think when we talk we get so passionate about what we're talking about, and it's it leapfrogs from sometimes the kids but sometimes politics you know, it's all over the place. And I think there's no judgment and I think the the older you are I hope people become a little bit more settled and who they are. I know I am and much more settled in who I am. And I'm and I think when you are you're much more accepting of other people and who they are and what they stand for. And just if they don't stand for the same things you do, I'm very curious about what Tell me about it. I want to know why you think that and I think if people could be a little bit more curious in life, people get along a lot better. I really

Unknown Speaker 19:17
do. Yeah,

Samantha Spittle 19:19
that's I've always said that, you know, with any differences that many times we all have the same end goal in mind. You know, like with parenting, you know, kind of a relevant topic two last month is you know, everyone hopefully, you know, barring any extremes want to raise healthy emotionally healthy happy kids, you know, we all go about it in kind of different ways. And so getting back you know, with this aging thing, I like said it's this common thread I'm seeing of this staying curious. And so for your experience, if someone is you know, realizing that there is still a lot of life to live that's the other I feel like common theme too with aging. Right, because the older you get, you're like, Wait, this isn't that old? Not when I was young, that is old. And so right, kind of looking forward with excitement and passion? How can people start kind of jumping into trying new things? Or gaining even the confidence to do those things that feel out of the box? Or, you know, kind of like a dream in your heart? You know, do you have something like deep down that you've been wanting to do? Or try, but maybe there's like fear standing in the way? What are some things you found to kind of help push through them?

Jill Perla 20:34
Well, I think with anything, it even what you did, when you tie your kids, it's baby steps, one step in front of the other. And I think a lot of times, people when they get older, they look at young people, and they think, Oh, I can't do it because of technology. Or they there's always some sort of an excuse. And I would say, let those go, because they're just holding you back. And if there is a roadblock, find somebody who's younger or older or whatever, and ask them about it, get curious about it. And

Unknown Speaker 21:09
I think that

Jill Perla 21:12
the more you, I don't want to say push forward. And but try and open your eyes and again, have grace for yourself. The world will open up if like, for example, when I'm teaching my art classes, so many people look at a blank canvas. And they are like they lock up because they're like, I don't know what to do with this blank canvas. I'm afraid of making mistakes, just it's very, this very similar life, it's like, you got it, the only way you're going to know if something's gonna work is to try. And if you're never really going to fail until you stop trying. So if you keep trying, you haven't failed yet, because you're still trying. And I keep that as always a mantra of mine, Mike, well, I haven't failed yet. Because I'm still trying. Yes, you know, you have to and again, back to the beauty of getting older as you get more rooted in who you are, and much more confident and solid. And your i I'm at the point where I'm just I want to share what I've learned. And I want everybody to hear how I figure it out. Because I'm like, come on, listen, I'm going to help you out. I'm going to fix this. And we're going to we're going to do this together. And I want you to feel confident yourself. And it's almost like when my kids get you know, they they're growing up, and they might not be interested in my advice. So I'm like, well, somebody else might be.

Samantha Spittle 22:42
Yeah, I've got all this to give. And then it's here for them when with or when they want it.

Jill Perla 22:48
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And I think it's it's kind of cool now because I do feel like you know, everybody says the I don't know what that is the 50 is the new 40. And all those No, really, I honestly, I'm the type of person that number, it's a number, it really doesn't matter. It's I personally get along with people who aren't my age, I'm much better with either a lot younger, a lot older. I don't know what it is about that. But I think it's just again, I think because you're in a different life zone than this person. And that's where my curiosity comes in. And I think it's much more engaging conversation. Because I don't I don't tend to like to dwell on things I like to just kind of meet move forward. And I think people who are curious, they want to learn more, and they're just like, maybe have raised his readers and just just, you know, want to just grab on to life. Just keep moving forward. Yeah,

Samantha Spittle 23:44
I'm very similar in that. I think it's like curiosity. I never thought of that before. But it's it's the curiosity and kind of being at a different stage and kind of being able to dive in there. And so the regaining your confidence, taking those baby steps. As we're getting older, something that we had talked about offline was engaging your brain more. And so what are ways to kind of engage our brains as we're getting older?

Jill Perla 24:13
Well, so for me, personally, it's doing anything that I haven't tried before. And, I mean, obviously, I would recommend art every day all day, because most people who've worked nine to five aren't going to be doodling drawing, painting. And anytime you can use the opposite side of the brain that you generally wouldn't is always good. And I know there is neuroscience behind that, that it's it's expanding your brain and I think that's the biggest deal when you're older. You I feel like sometimes you tend to your brain starts to kind of atrophy a little bit, because you're just used to doing the same thing over and over. It's just habit Yeah, if you can break any of the habits that you have and do thinks differently. I'm talking even silly things like brush your teeth with the opposite hand, mean, anything you can do. And I think things that you can do to help you become more creative or take us a class, get certified in something, go go to your local community college, you're going to meet new people, you're going to learn something new, and you're going to instantly feel younger. And not that the point is to feel younger, but feel more engaged. And I think that's, that's a big key too. I think when your kids are older, and they're leaving, you want to make sure you're not left in like this vacuum of silence. And with the group that I've created, it is a community where we gather and even though we're painting, we're all gelling, and we're all together. And we're all creating together, it just, it's that kind of, little bit of blissful time where it's like, we're all trying to create the same thing, we're all kind of marching to the same beat. And it's, it's very, it's very community driven. And it's almost like if, you know, if you're part of a church, you know, when you're all sitting there, in the congregation, in your listening, there's that sort of spirit that just fills you and just, you just, it's so powerful to have a whole group of people together feeling the same thing at the same time. Now, if you're at a wedding, or you know, all of it, just if you can get tap into that sense of community and feeling like you're part of something and I hate to be silly, but bigger than yourself. And it's true. It's so true. I think now, now's when you should be volunteering at different organizations, and, and whatever you've you've done over the years, now's the time to volunteer and give time back and give back of yourself. And know if you make money, great. If you don't, it doesn't matter. It's really, this is this is the real give back time. I think it's it gives as much as you give out, it comes right back to you.

Samantha Spittle 27:06
Yeah. And the community aspect to I think that's so huge is finding the community and to and also to not to be afraid to find new communities. You know, we talk a lot about breaking out of maybe some of the boxes, we've put ourselves in or, or have been put in, you know, fear of change. And maybe there's like a new community, you know, to be a part of maybe there's something new you try with these, you know, kind of using kind of hobbies or volunteer opportunities to try something different not being afraid, because as you said, you get older and you're like, wait, I just feeling much more secure, and who I am or more curious and who I am and so not afraid to take some of those chances. So,

Jill Perla 27:48
right, take chances and not feel silly doing it. And, you know, I think for me, there's so much technology that it kind of trips me up nowadays. But there are so many people that are out there willing to help you and they're like, happy to do it. And when you know somebody who can do something easily, you may as well ask him for help and asking for help was not a problem. You know, you're told to ask for help when you're in school growing up. And I think, you know, as you're an adult, you still still don't know everything. You no one's ever going to know everything and just knowing nobody knows everything. So who cares? Ask the question, Why are just great. And then the fear just goes away. It's, it's funny, because I used to dance. I used to be a ballet dancer all through college. And that's something I gave up long ago. But lately, I've been wanting to take up dance classes again. So that might be my new thing that I try. So something a little bit differently. Yeah, so that's kind of exciting. Oh, I like

Samantha Spittle 28:50
that a little nudge, a little nudge. bathroo to try. Yeah, into that. I think that's to one thing I've learned a lot from speaking to so many wise people is kind of, you know, listening to our intuition that there's something you know, if you feel curious to try something, you know, that might be something worth pursuing and not feeling like it's ever too late, you know, not feeling like we've missed the boat on that one. So,

Jill Perla 29:19
right. And it doesn't have to be new either. I mean, I used to sing in chorus and choir for years, and part of me is thinking I go back to that. So this is the time when you can pick up where you left off. Yeah, you know, with a different angle. So lots and lots of possibilities.

Samantha Spittle 29:35
Well, even though we're wrapping up, I thought of something that I thought okay, so, you know, I had these great conversations around aging, and I've met so many women in my life and there's so many stories of change, changing midlife, you know, and kind of going in a new direction and a lot of times it's sparked by some big life changes. And you know, I'm thinking have, you know when you have whether it's you know, a loss or a divorce or separation or something that feels like a obvious life moment to pivot and change? And I know that we've talked before about, you know, what does it look like to start over, but when your life is still looks the same, you know, you're still married, you know, your kids are still at home, you know, do we have to wait for a big life moment to start over?

Jill Perla 30:28
No, you know, it's funny, because I think a lot of times people use us something saying move, or, you know, the kids leaving as, okay, I'm gonna wait, when that happens. So then you're you're wasting, say, three years, you know, and in, that's not, sometimes it's good to wait. Sometimes it's actually better to jump in and make those changes now, because you're insecure footing. And a lot of people do make big changes when say they've divorced or, you know, gone through these major things or, but, you know, for example, you know, you my husband, he has cancer, and he has had cancer for years now, but it's one of those slow growing cancer. So it's, that's part of the aging process to an extent as well. So there's that feeling of, I want to live my life, he is living his life, but we're living life at different speeds in a way because you know, we're at different different places, you know, and I think when you're married for so long, and you're with somebody who has challenges like this, I think you have to continue to think about what makes you happy and not feel guilty about that. And just like, you know, even if you just your husband's feeling well, or you're feeling well, and the health is still there, you don't wait, because life is so finite, I mean, we can talk about how, you know, we're midlife. But I think the biggest thing I can I can tell people is, what's the point of waiting, you know, there is no point of waiting. And if it is fear, that you might make a fool of yourself, then you really don't have a reason to wait. I mean, there could be mitigating circumstances, maybe too much money, or, you know, maybe you are the caretaker and you can't move forward, but you can take little baby steps back to that, you know, you might not be launched into this huge new career. But you can sure, take out that paintbrush and try, you know, one canvas, right. And, you know, you could want to meet yourself, where you're at, just like we would want to meet a friend where they're at, you know, so that's, that's what I would say, meet people where they're at and yourself where you're at, and just have grace,

Samantha Spittle 32:59
that's beautiful. And thank you for sharing that because I know that being at a stage of life caretaking, I know my mom, with her mom, you know, it's so a different circumstance. But, you know, she was long distance, and it just took a lot out of her to do a lot of that responsibility and care. And so it's something we kind of talked about, because not wanting me to feel like I had to put my life on hold, you know, when they're kind of at that stage of life. And, you know, if it's your spouse or anyone in your life, you know, people who are responsible for their adult children still, right. And so finding ways, you know, I appreciate the reminder that it might look different, you know, like you said, you might not be able to go, you know, full charge ahead. But just right, no matter what the stages, finding something for ourselves, because when, you know, life is constantly changing, and we don't want to lose everything. You know, that makes sense. You don't

Jill Perla 33:58
you know, and even though I'm a parent of much older kids, even if you've, your parents have much younger kids, you really can't feel guilty for fulfilling yourself because you're going to be a much better parent, you're going to be a much better human being. It's back to filling your bucket and filling other buckets. You know, it's it, we really have to do it and not feel guilty about it because there's a balance.

Samantha Spittle 34:26
Yeah, for me being around people who just are constantly talking about the growth and curiosity. It's, uh, you know, it's something that I think almost, I guess would say, maybe that's the secret to aging. i Yes,

Jill Perla 34:44
I think I think so. I mean, I personally think I'm 12 and I've said that before, and I will always say that I just happen to take a look and I'm like, Oh, wait, you're not 12 That's fine. That's fine. I still 12 in my head. Yeah, it's just think If you're if you're young at heart, and there is really something to it, you will live a far longer, happier life really, really

Samantha Spittle 35:09
enjoy it and finding the joy. And it's funny because on another one of the conversations with my guest, Danielle, we talked about doing the work of growth and healing, and you know, trauma work and therapy, and how it's important work, and we have to do it, but we don't want to lose the joy. And we talked about kind of digging deeper into finding our happiness. And when were we last happy. And so this was, this is a great pairing with that, because it kind of helps us take that next step of like, what are the things that make you happy? And and also, that's the other thing where, with this eight, that this idea of aging is you might kind of identify things that make you happy, but then that's where fear and doubt could step in. To say, Yeah, you know, can't do it.

Jill Perla 35:54
Right. And don't Don't fool yourself. Yeah. Don't fool yourself, because you've been around the block long enough that you can tell whether it's fear, and it's genuine fear, like, yeah, maybe you shouldn't jump off that cliff. You know, it's here, maybe you should try this instead. But, you know, I tell you, if you live life with zeal, you're gonna have a lot better life and a much more full enriched life.

Samantha Spittle 36:20
Yes. Well, Joel, thank you so much. I always love getting to chat with you. And I appreciate your perspective. And I love getting to check in and see how things are changing and evolving. And, you know, seeing you take this passion, you know, with painting that was yours and became professional. And now moving into how you can help others. Rediscover that creativity and passion and life and whatnot. So

Jill Perla 36:44
it's been a joy as usual and a pleasure. I really appreciate the conversation.

Samantha Spittle 36:50
Thank you and how can people get in touch with you Joe?

Jill Perla 36:53
They can get in touch with me at my website, which is Gil Perla art. And if they would like to have a free class, they can join creative kickstart for a three a 30 day free trial of my creativity group and that's where they can paint and have fun and explore painting which might be their next new hobby

Samantha Spittle 37:17
might be and you know, even if it's not it is a it is a step forward. And so I have learned that there are no wrong steps and so you take this step and then if it feels right, you stay there but either way it'll get those juices flowing.

Jill Perla 37:33
Yeah, you never know it could be jewelry making. So that's that's the beauty of open those eyes and ears and give it a whirl.

Samantha Spittle 37:41
I love it. Thank you so much gel. I appreciate it.

Jill Perla 37:43
Thank you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai