Samantha Spittle 0:00
Featherstone, thank you so much for being here and jumping into this parenting chat. And so I would love to start off and have you introduce yourself so everyone can know who you are. hardest question of the podcast.

Featherstone 0:17
I'm Featherstone and I am a dual certified nurse practitioner, both in reproductive sexual health and psychiatric mental health. I have a private practice that does telehealth to Idaho and I also work in a larger counseling group here in Virginia, called the Ghana wellness clinic. And my specialty is working with parents and LGBTQ folks. Specifically, transgender mental health under that umbrella and people who have unusual relationship formations like ethically non monogamous folks, people that have historically been underserved or misunderstood by the medical community. And so they avoid care because they can't get understanding care. And parents I could go on forever about but psychiatry is like, Oh, you have a baby in your uterus. You're under the purview of an OB GYN and an OB GYN is like, I'm not experienced with mental health medications. That's not my bag. And so there's this huge gap for for people who are pregnant or breastfeeding to get like the care they need for their mental health. And it's so important because if parents are suffering kids are going to suffer like that's, that's a major cause of trauma that trickles down, you know, generationally. So I feel like that's sort of my higher calling, and what I love to do, but I'm a big nerd, and I love books, and I love talking to people who are doing different things, because it's really interesting to get insight into a world that's different for men.

Samantha Spittle 1:50
Yes, well, thank you, that was beautifully said. And you like hit all the my hot buttons, you know, generational trauma, healthy, underserved, like wanting and, and a big part of, you know, fleshing out, it's like trying to bring the conversations that I usually get to have, because I just feel lucky that I've met great people, bringing the conversations that I feel like we would have over coffee privately, but letting other people here because with parenting, especially you when when your kids are little, you kind of think I'm going to do it this way. And this is how they're going to be if if I do a plus b, it will equal c and you quickly learn. That is not the way it works.

Featherstone 2:32
Only children were recipes.

Samantha Spittle 2:36
And I feel like you know, when our kids are young for the most part. And of course, none of this is, you know, true all the time. But for the most part, it's like, you know, when they're younger, it's more like defiant, and things like that, or you know, like, trying to get them to behave, I guess you could say, Yeah, but as kids grow up, you realize like, oh, yeah, they're their own person with their own thoughts, with their own beliefs. And no matter how much you think you're shaping them, or you know, what not? They And isn't that what we want as parents to because we want to raise our kids to be independent thinkers. And so with your specialty, you know, with having a passion for parents, children, and the whole I love how you talked about the mental and physical because it's so as we learn more and more, it's so connected. And so I feel like yes, and you have this like holistic approach of like, kind of respecting that the parents need the help, but also the kids. And so I would love to dive into that today on, you know, really supporting kids. And as you said, you know, with the LGBT Q community supporting that, too, because I think parenting that's such a struggle with kids and whatnot. And so I would love to get your insight because like said, at the end of the day, I want to be my goal is always to be of course, the best parent I can be. I feel like that's sounds cliche, but wanting Mike's we're all trying to do exactly like if you're not, there's probably a problem there. But

Featherstone 4:03
we're all we can Yeah, yeah. But raising moving target.

Samantha Spittle 4:08
Exactly. Exactly. And and yeah, so I would just love to dive into that with you.

Featherstone 4:13
I think it's easy when we start with one person's perspective. So I think we should start with the parent perspective, because you know, they were around first, they were aware of this child before the child was aware of the parent. So what we don't always talk about is sort of the vision that we have for our children, before we even know anything about them before they're born. We have all these hopes and dreams, that they're going to be a certain way and they're going to look like this parent, or they're going to do this thing like this other parent. And that's not really challenged as much until those kids get to that developmental age where they're starting to sort of separate from parents. So think of that tween stage where they start to gravitate more towards peers and they're pursuing their own interests. They start to challenge the parents values and the parents outlook on the world and life. There's grief there. For the parent, there's a cognitive dissonance, there's a difference between the expected reality and the actual reality. They thought they were going to have a kid that was looking like them and grows up and does like them. And they had, you know, even if they aren't fully aware of it, they have pretty specific vision for what they expected for their children. And, you know, it can happen anywhere along the way, you know, medical problems, stillbirth, unexpected death or illness like that dreams can be interrupted at any point. And life is fragile. And we don't always think about that. But in the case of LGBTQ teens, it has a lot of trickle down into their later life. So let's say you had a baby, and his sex at birth was male, and you expect him to be a boy, and you think about him playing football. And when he six, he's like, Mommy, I really want an Elsa dress, I think, you know, I think I want to grow my hair long, I think I want you to call me, Sarah. And we have this big disruption to all of those things that the parent expected. Now, it can be really different, based on that parent's whole experience with gender, or sexuality, or how other people responded, you know, to people who are LGBTQ minorities in their lives. And so it's like, you know, they have all these different voices in the back of their head that they're now sorting through that weren't really potentially relevant to them before. But now, like, if you have a trans kid, that's a very different life ahead of both of you, as a parent and as a kid. And so we have to acknowledge that grief, we can't just expect parents to be like, okay, everything's fine. I'm on board. Like, at some point, they're gonna have to process this is different than they expected. And it's not that anything is wrong. And that the grief isn't the child's fault. Hmm. Like, there's no fault here. But at the same time, if that kid is feeling that grief a lot, they can feel a lot of guilt. Yeah, they take it on themselves. Yeah. Like, this isn't about you, mom. Yeah, like for an older team, to be like, I'm not doing this to hurt you. This isn't about you. That's a thing that I had heard a lot was this isn't about you. And the thing is, it's not about the parent. But they're obviously very invested. Because that's, you know, their hopes and dreams and body.

Samantha Spittle 7:56
It's funny when you said this isn't about you, I was thinking that's true for almost everyone on their healing journey, right? Because no matter what, you know, your age or your identity, we all have stuff to unpack from our childhood. And there's that I used to think it's getting less now. But it used to be the joke, you know, you just blamed everything on your parents. And now we're on now that there's more understanding. It's like you're not blaming, you're just trying to understand and piece it together. And so,

Featherstone 8:22
as we can't do better, unless we understand where we came from.

Samantha Spittle 8:26
Yeah. And when you were talking about that grief, I was so glad you started out with that, because it reminds me a friend of mine who's you know, has a child with special needs. She shared the story of when if you're packing to go to, like Paris, and you you get all ready and you go to Paris, and the plane touches down and they say Welcome to Holland. And it's like what, what I have my, you know, petty stuff, I'm ready to go. But you learn to you know, you see eventually like Holland is great, you're so glad you're in Holland, but it just that is not what you prepared for.

Featherstone 9:02
It's still an adventure. Mm hmm. It's still wonderful. There's still so much love. It's just different. Yeah. And there are things that we have, you know, culturally that we look forward to, like, touched on events, like buying a wedding dress, or prom dress with your daughter. Well, if your daughter decides that she's not a girl, maybe you're going to be buying a tux with

Samantha Spittle 9:24
him. Mm hmm. When it comes to identity and with kids, a lot of the chatter you know, is like, they're too young, this and that. And so some parents, every parent approaches it differently. And it's regardless of age, but like they there's going to be people that have different opinions across the board of what they think about this. And and I respect that. where I'm coming from a lot of the time is like, well, you might you meaning me, and everyone you know, we all might have our own opinions, but at the end of the day, especially if it's your kid isn't the end goal, to have a relationship with your kid, regardless of what your current opinions are that

Featherstone 10:06
sense, yeah, what I'm hearing is, are we talking about, like, the trend of people to push their children away when they're not? What they expect? Are we talking about respecting autonomy of young people to make this decision, because that's really what I feel like a lot of it boils down to, is that parents aren't yet used to respecting the autonomy of these of these children, because legally, they aren't autonomous. But if self definition, you know, that's not legality, that's, that's that person deciding who they are. And that's not anybody's to decide, but them no matter what their age is,

Samantha Spittle 10:51
I appreciate that. I was I had a conversation with a woman, and she's a trans advocate, you know, for, for policies, and she hosted a talk where we could kind of, you know, just ask questions, and it was, it was wonderful. And one thing she shared that I just thought was really powerful was for her journey. And she talked about others, like just being as a parent, okay, that if your kid says they identify as one thing, and it changes to support them where they're at that was the point of it was to support them, where they're absolutely, and not get so tied in and fearful that if they currently identify one way that's supporting them will pigeonhole them into that forever, is absolutely,

Featherstone 11:35
yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a way as a parent to be supportive of, we're gonna love you, no matter what you look like, no matter what you dress, like no matter who you love. Yeah, period. That is the blanket. universal acceptance that is wonderful. Now, when I, when you first started talking about that, the concept of like fluidity being guaranteed. And that was where I was, like, a little hesitant, because I was like, so many people will try to reassure parents, this is just a phase, you just wait. And they're going to come out the other side of this, and it's all going to go back to the way it was. And I hate that, because it's like, the parents are just grinning and baring their teeth, and like white knuckling it. And there's not like genuine acceptance and like curiosity.

Samantha Spittle 12:25
Yeah. And I, and I'm glad you mentioned the face, because I wanted to touch on that, too. But yeah, it wasn't a phase as in like, you're on this side of the line. And then you go to this side of the line, it was an evolution, it was just a continuing. And that's where I thought we all should be evolving, right? Like we're all constantly growing. And I think there's fear

Featherstone 12:43
of being attached to one idea. Yeah. And I think for parents, it's important to stay curious and to ask questions about like, well, what does this mean to you? And how can I support you best? What pronouns? Would you like me to use in front of people that know? Do you want me to use different pronouns in front of people who don't, because respecting that young person's ability to selectively disclose to come out to people where it feels comfortable, and to not where they don't feel comfortable, that is ultimately giving them the most control and autonomy, about not only who they are, but how safe they feel in different spaces.

Samantha Spittle 13:27
I just want you to almost say that just that last part, again, because I think it's really important. So it's giving them the control and the autonomy to feel safe.

Featherstone 13:36
Giving them the control and autonomy to disclose their identity, based on where they feel safe. Yeah. Because from my personal experience, I spent a lot of my early life just identified as bisexual. And I was like, I know that I like women and men, and that's just the way it is. And, you know, I enrolled in the military when I was young, I was 20 years old. And I really loved being in the army. But I don't think I had the insight at the time to really put my finger on what it was about it that felt so good in terms of my gender. I think I really liked it, everybody was green, there was no men and women that just everybody was green, everybody was the same. And so there was a sort of expectation of androgyny, that I think made me really comfortable in a way I hadn't ever been before. Because I'd always kind of felt like I was bad at being a girl, like I didn't really know makeup and like, I tried to be feminine, but it felt like like it was really put on and so it never really felt comfortable. But in the army, I wear boots and pants and the same thing as everyone else around me. And I was expected to be tough and, you know, assertive, and not things that are traditionally expected from women. But it wasn't until almost 10 full years later where I was having a conversation with somebody and I think they use the metaphor of a queen. They're like, You're the queen of blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Oh, God, that makes me kind of want to vomit. I was like, I don't identify with that at all. And this was in the era of like, Game of Thrones was really popular. And I was like, let me tell you, I'm not Searcy. I'm not the queen of anything. I'm Brienne of Tarth. I'm the female Knight, who's very androgynous if you're not a Game of Thrones person. And so we had this conversation. And the person I was talking to is like, do you think that might be sort of some fluidity in your gender? And I was like, I had never really thought about it. And so then I started this period of reflection, I was like, Oh, my God. That's absolutely it. And so I had a really close friend who is trans and just brilliant. And I respect her so much. And I went to her and I was like, Do you think I might be like, gender fluid or non binary? Like, what do you think? And she's like, Oh, I've known for so long. And it was validating. It was so validating. But it was also really surprising, because I was just coming to this realization, and she was like, the first time we went shopping, you made a beeline for the men's flannel. Like, I'm not surprised. Nah. So sometimes, um, external affirmation like that for people as they're on that journey. You know, if a parent could say, Yeah, I can maybe see that. I think that is going to build a lot of rapport and affirmation for a teenager who is really digging into this. And sort of maybe verbally processing it with trusted people. Yeah. Because I think it's something that we talk about a lot more than we ever did when I was a kid. Like when I was a kid, no one talked about gender like this.

Samantha Spittle 16:52
Oh, yeah. And that's, I think, something that I have seen. You know, my perspective so far is like, isn't this a good thing that there's more ways for kids to figure out their identity, right? Because there's, there's so much but the flips are the opposite end of the pendulum is I feel like that fear of, there's too much kids are too confused. There's too much. So I'd love for you to speak on that.

Featherstone 17:19
Because I kind of want to laugh when when you said kids are too confused. Um, I don't think kids are more confused today. I think they just have better ways to describe how things are confusing.

Samantha Spittle 17:32
I know, it was cute. Life was confusing.

Featherstone 17:35
Absolutely. Um, yeah, I think that like, we have a lot more awareness of how prominent gender roles are, and how masculinity and femininity, do not just have one stereotype. Mm hmm. And so people have more options, I think for describing the nuance of their gender, which is how society expects them to be based on their bilott based on previously based on sex. But gender is just this construct of like, okay, what is your gender, okay, this is what we think you might act like, or speak like, or look like, in relation to other people. So I don't think kids are more confused today. I think kids have a better vocabulary, and more concepts, and it's constantly evolving. You know, in the past four years, I have discovered so many new terms and ideas about gender. One of my favorite tools that I use with other clinicians is something called the gender bread person. And it's this really cute PDF infographic of a gingerbread man. And they talk about the difference between sex which is, you know, biological chromosomes, gender, which is the role you play in society, and how you view yourself. And then gender expression, which is like how you dress and if you wear makeup and nail polish, or certain kinds of jewelry that historically have been associated with men or women, and then talks about sexuality in terms of like, Who are you romantically attracted to, who were you sexually attracted to? Those may not be the same. And so when kids talk about these terms, like a row, like a romantic, like, I don't feel romantic attraction to people or ACE like a sexual, I don't feel sexual attraction, they can still have the other they're not mutually exclusive. So they're still like relationships with other people. But you know, that's a really different idea back let's think about just 50 years ago in the 1970s talking about having a relationship that is either devoid Have sex but still romantic. Like, that was not something commonly talked about. There was free love, there was sexuality and you know, a lot of progressive things because of the birth control pill, and an evolution and how people related in terms of sexual activity not necessarily leading to having a child. So there was

Samantha Spittle 20:22
a lot of the way you're talking about the 70s. Because in my head, like I think probably other listeners are doing, we're thinking, Oh, she's talking about the 50s. But no, it's the 70s because it's 2021

Featherstone 20:34
isn't crazy, like, I know, I almost started talking about the 50s. And I was like, That's not 50 years ago.

Samantha Spittle 20:40
Uh huh. Cuz I was like, Wait, free love. Oh, we're not talking about like, Leave It to Beaver. We're talking about

Featherstone 20:47
no. Okay. No gender roles, you know, from the 50s to the 70s had already shifted a lot.

Samantha Spittle 20:54
Yeah, I'm grateful for your insight. Thank you. And I was thinking, my thought process is kids, especially like you said, in the tweens, tween start pushing the boundaries, usually. And so then you look at teenagers in high school, and you know, you look, it's not as common now. But back in like the 80s, and 90s. All of the teen movies are like, those are those kids over there. Those are those kids over there. Kids have been giving themselves labels when other kids have been giving other people labels forever.

Featherstone 21:24
Well, let's look at it through an anthropological lens. It's culture. Mm hmm. They're picking the culture that they feel aligned with, hmm, you know, if if you are queer, if you are bisexual, if you are trans, you automatically belong to this group. And it's a group with its own outlook and lingo and history. It's a culture. And so I think, um, you know, talking about, you know, from our era more like, there were skaters, and there were Goths, and there were the, you know, the country kids and, and, you know, the people who were in like r&b and hip hop, that was very distinct, sort of cultural lines. But I found that like, in my experience, a lot of the people who are like wearing the black eyeliner and being reclusive, like, these were the signals that they felt different. And they gravitated towards these things. And those were actually some of the most accepting and warm and welcoming kids because they knew what it was like to be on the fringe. And very, very high proportion of those kids when I was growing up was LGBTQ. So I'm, like, the theater kids that I hung out with in high school, like, more than half were queer in some way, or fashion. And I would probably say that, like if we looked at their trauma, like their generational trauma, really pretty high, like mental health issues, and parents substance use and parents, domestic violence in the home, you know, sad stories, but it's really, really common. And it's just like, how do people take that, and then incorporate it into who they are and how they interact with others.

Samantha Spittle 23:15
Yeah. And I have so many thoughts in my head heavy. Oh, I love that. Well, no. I mean, it's like, I have so many questions. And it's hard to because wanting like, oh, wait, okay, let's get back to parenting. But I'm like, Oh, now I have questions about this. And what are your opinions on this? And so what's like said, I have all these voices in my head, you know, because it's like, I hear the opinions on all the different sides. And, and for me, it just always comes back to wanting to connect with your kid, regardless of any of the other things. And that's why, when you were describing the trauma, I was like, in my head, I was like, Oh, I can hear it now. Oh, it's trauma. And

Featherstone 23:52
well, in the moment when your kid discloses to you something about their identity, that moment will forever be ingrained. You can never undo whatever you do or say, in that moment. It's like a first impression. Yeah, they're coming out story is something I'll never forget. And coming out, is it something that you do once and you're done with coming out when you're queer is something that you do in whichever areas of your life that you want to, but it's never just once it's like, when you meet somebody, you can either withhold that part of yourself and wait until you feel safe and come out later. More you. A lot of us don't have that privilege, though, to just start a relationship and be like, Hey, my name is Featherstone, and I'm trans. And my pronouns are they them, because it's not common yet, outside of, you know, really young people to necessarily share pronouns as a part of a normal introduction. And so if you are outside that strict gender binary that aligns With your sex at birth, you're the only person saying pronouns is the person who's trans and wait to put the spotlight on yourself, like no one wants that kind of attention. Generally, unless they like being a disrupter. Or they know they're in a position where no one's going to engage in microaggressions, because it would be frowned upon in that setting. But I'd say that's probably pretty rare. Cultivating a environment of safety for trans kids means doing little things like that, like asking about pronouns when you meet somebody. Because when you're just showing that you're aware that that exists, kids are going to be like, Oh, my God, they have the coolest parents ever. They're safe to talk to. And once parents make kids feel safe, kids can tell them about all kinds of stuff like drug use, and sex, and things that are potentially dangerous. Like, if parents, if I could give parents any advice today, on your poker face,

Samantha Spittle 25:59
be cool. That's the cool, man. That's, I want to get that on a shirt. Because

Featherstone 26:06
I told my mom, I was at this party, and there were people snorting cocaine, and I think they were having an orgy in the back room.

Unknown Speaker 26:15
I got to work on my poker face.

Featherstone 26:19
Because you got it, you gotta be like, man. Wow, did you handle that? How do you feel? What do you do? So I just had

Samantha Spittle 26:32
another parenting conversation for this series, you know, for the parenting series. And we talked about, you know, asking questions to our kids, and I can't remember if this was on a podcast, or I just talked about it, because I talk all the time. But I said, I feel like I often need to, you know, because I'm trying to raise my kids to be kind loving people, and, you know, just fill this role that I am as their parent, they're all worthy or all knowing beam, which you're not. And that's, that's all not true. She's making a face guys. And that, and I'm saying, exactly. That's, that's the whole point is like, that's kind of I feel like a lot of people go into parenting, and then you realize, like, Wait, we are in this together. They're their own person, you know, it's this whole journey. And,

Featherstone 27:17
and there's no parenting class before you actually have kids like, oh, there's a difference between reading the manual and swimming and being thrown in the ocean. And that's what it's like, when you have a baby. Like, you can take all the diapering and infant CPR classes in the world and breastfeeding classes, and you don't know what's behind that door.

Samantha Spittle 27:37
No, that's why it's so hard. And I've learned, you know, my kids between nine and 11 Now, you know, for watching a show, and they do something in the show that I feel like I should comment on that and but it's like they're tuning me out like it's I we're getting, it's like, I'm they're not little kids anymore, that I constantly need to be saying, No, don't touch that hot stove. No, you don't the hot. Don't do that. Like, and so when you said the part about you know, the poker face and the cool, like when they talk, it's there's that part of me that's like, but I need to tell them, like, but you're not doing that, are you? You didn't do that. Right. Like, we know that that's not good to do.

Featherstone 28:19
I see you look up this dress. But here's the thing

Samantha Spittle 28:22
to people because I want to work all that shit out. Yeah,

Featherstone 28:25
and not with your kids. It's that's

Samantha Spittle 28:28
why I started this podcast.

Featherstone 28:32
But that's the thing you every parent needs other parents to talk to, like no one should be parenting in a vacuum. And ideally, we have other parents. So So one of the things that I wrote when I was prepping for this was like, ask me about Aloe parents. Have you ever heard this term? Oh, Tony, our parent is like, think about the village of societies way before, there'd be lots of aunties and uncles and other adults, your parents age who were around and available. Who would also act in that parental role if necessary, when your parents weren't around. But when we all live in our little houses with our 2.5 children and a female parent and a male parent and a Labrador retriever, you don't have that kind of support. And that support is not just for kids that support is for parents, for sure. Because that's emotional support for parents. That's potentially safe, other adults for kids to confide in. Because kids can tell when their parents get wigged out about stuff when that poker face isn't quite good enough. And they're like, Shit, my mom's gonna be really mad. I drank beer at that party. But like this weird thing happened, and I kinda want to talk about it with an adult who isn't going to feel like they need to punish me. So I'm going to go talk to my mom's friend Sarah. Yes.

Samantha Spittle 29:59
Okay. You know, I feel like we've kind of talked with the other series, we've talked about allowing yourself to look at the areas if you've made mistakes and and screwed up and and have the regrets and that that's a good thing. And we've talked about how to connect with young kids. And I feel like it's these teenagers. Because I think when your kids are young, you're so in it. So you're like, looking at the blogs, and it's new. So you're just like, I gotta figure this out. But by the time they're teenagers, you're exhausted. That's when our kids I feel like, that's when they're becoming totally their own people. And it's so easy to just lock it down. So

Featherstone 30:34
absolutely, you made a comment earlier about like, I'm going to be a parent. So I'm going to be this omniscient, omnipotent. Yeah, yeah. And I think it gets easier, sort of taking that down with a tween or a teenager, because they know you don't know everything, they are acutely aware that you are not perfect. And I think it, it brings so much authenticity, to look your teenager in the eye and say, Look, this is what I was thinking, and this is what I was feeling. And this is why I made this decision. But I recognize now that maybe I would have done it differently. And I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. I'm sorry that it didn't feel fair. How do you think we should go moving forward? Because I think we should do XYZ. What do you think? Because that really levels with them. And it demonstrates how you want them to treat people in their lives. And you want them to be able to put away the shame and apologize when they make mistakes. Because if we can't apologize to our children, how are they ever going to apologize to their partners? Mm hmm. They're just going to hold on to defensiveness. And we can't model defensiveness to the people that we love most. Because we love our children more than anybody else. Like, let's be real. We love our partners. We love our parents. We love everybody. Like, it is so different when it's your child. Yeah. And so leveling with them. But like, No, I'm not an expert. No, I read all the blogs, but that doesn't actually prepare me like there is no one right way to do this. And yes, I treat you differently from your sibling, because you are different humans with different needs.

Samantha Spittle 32:12
Okay, so here's a question. I want to level with them. I want to model this behavior. I want to show them respect by Featherstone. But you know, kids and teens, they're, they have so much they're just a kid, I'm the parent at the end of the day. I say,

Featherstone 32:30
how do we balance those? How do I balance the seemingly opposing ideas?

Samantha Spittle 32:34
Be Me Oh, I love that seemingly opposed? Because I it's not

Featherstone 32:39
either or it's both? And? Yes. So can we hear their feedback? And can we integrate it in some way? But also say no, these are the hard boundaries because of safety. And because these are the rules of this house. Because this ultimately is my house. And legally, it is my right to enforce them. And, yeah, I am willing to compromise in these areas. But these things I will not. And so a lot of it is just learning to communicate really succinctly and clearly with them. And sometimes, you know, the, the part of the brain that's not fully developed in teens is at the very, very front, it's the prefrontal cortex. And it's what's in charge of like Higher Logic and reasoning and judgment. That's why teens drive really recklessly and get more tickets, and more accidents than older books. Because they don't have as good of an ability, literally, with their brain to juggle all the things they're trying to juggle and evaluate risk. And so I've actually had a couple of very interesting conversations with my own boys about this, about like, you know, I think these kinds of decisions about like, what you do in terms of riding four wheelers, or driving cars, I think I really need to keep those decisions, until I'm really sure that you're ready for them, because they could have really serious consequences. And I flushed out why. And I told them about how their brains developed. And you know, it's not really done until you're like in your early 20s. But it really is like explaining yourself. And that's really humbling for a lot of parents, because a lot of them are like, so caught up in that hierarchy. This is my role, I have the authority. But that's so dehumanizing to the child who is now like moving into an age where they have more understanding and they have more autonomy. And the parent really is losing like a certain degree of control because that child isn't even in the home, usually, the majority of the day. So like acknowledging where you do and don't have control, but communicating like explicit expectations, and what the consequences will be and not necessarily to be punitive. There are some kids that respond to that, but but reasonable consequences that mimic what happens out in the world. So So that, like, you can't go Joy writing and not have consequences. Like you're going to go to prison, you're going to not have a car for a while, if you go to a writing. And so just thinking about what are natural consequences, like what would happen out in the real world? And what do you want to have the most impact? Because it aligns with your values, and talking about values when you discuss consequences with your kids. So they'll think about those sorts of things. Like, is this gonna be a thing that like, is a nuisance? Or is this something that like, fronts, my parents values? Because it's important to them?

Samantha Spittle 35:37
Hmm. What do you mean by that? Can you explain that a little more.

Featherstone 35:40
So like, punctuality? Mm, has different levels of importance to different people? What does respect look like in your family? Is it disrespectful to show up late? Or is it disrespectful to ignore somebody and give them the cold shoulder? So like, for me, in particular, cold shoulder is my absolutely not super disrespectful. I'm from the military, you respond when you're spoken to. And that's just like, my thing, my pet peeve. A lot of other military folks would be like, You better not be late, you better be early. That's disrespectful. So if I give you a nine o'clock curfew, and you're not home, there's going to be held, there's going to be a consequence, you're going to lose some sort of, you know, privilege. For me, it's like, I don't mind if you're 10 minutes late, I'm not going to be a stickler about that. That doesn't communicate disrespect to me. But please let me know that you're safe and that like something not wrong. And so like each parent, even within one family might have very different values. And so having a clear idea, well, do I have to speed home? So I'm not in trouble? Or do I need to shoot a text? You know, those are different? Yeah, different things. And if a team feels like they're chasing a moving target, if it's not clear what the expectation is, they're going to get really frustrated.

Samantha Spittle 37:08
If say that one more time, if a team if the moving target. That's so 15

Featherstone 37:12
feels like they're chasing a moving target as far as expectations with parents. That's going to be super frustrating. Mm hmm. Just like we would be with a boss or someone else. If the expectations we thought were clear, were changed without notice. Yes.

Samantha Spittle 37:33
Featherstone, I think you're gonna have to come back because there's like so much. Because there's so much because I think we have just scratched the surface of it. But if there's anything we haven't talked about, or kind of a general takeaway, what would you say from today's conversation?

Featherstone 37:49
I think one of the really hard things for parents of trans teens in particular, is what they let them do in regards to medical treatment, and or surgeries. Because I think a lot of parents are worried that it is a phase. And if it's a phase, and we try puberty blockers, or we try hormone therapy, what does that mean? And so I think parents have to recognize that the more they push back, the more the kid is going to want it. And the more they're going to feel alienated because they're not feeling respected. And so it usually doesn't hurt to go and have a conversation with a pediatric endocrinologist or or provider who offers gender affirming health care. Because what we do know from the research is that gender affirming health care saves lives. It saves lives for trans teens, forcing people to grow up in a body that does not match who they are, is traumatic. And so I knew that I wanted to talk about the Trevor Project when I came today, because they have an amazing program. They do like a crisis line, either by text or by phone. For young LGBTQ people, it's an amazing organization. I have friends who volunteer with them. And just a great resource all around for teens who are maybe feeling alone or like they're having a hard time because they're isolated because of COVID. And maybe their family of origin is not supportive, but for parents to just understand that any good health care provider is going to have a really clear conversation with you about risks, benefits and alternatives. And so talking with that provider and with your team, about like okay, these medications are an option these surgeries are an option. And and having a clear conversation with your kid afterwards about like okay, if you feel like this in X number of months For by this time, you know next year, and having clear agreements about, like, if you still feel like this, and this is truly who you are, I want to support you, but, but like really disentangling it and making sure that both the parent and the team like have clear communication and expectations about when next steps will begin to happen. Because for a team who feel stuck in this body that doesn't fit, knowing that in three months, in six months, they're going to be able to go back to that doctor and start taking hormones to look more like who they who they are on the inside. Like, that instills so much hope. And they're going to feel so much more connected to their parent for trusting them to know who they are. And if they do change their mind, great, the parents still invested in the relationship by saying I trust you to know who you are, and I will respect your decision. Because ultimately, if we lose our kids to suicide, because we didn't listen to them. That's not, that's not you having a relationship with your kid, you're going to lose your kid. And it really is life saving care, gender affirming hormones, gender affirming, surgeries are life saving, like there is no doubt, the literature is very clear on that. So just want parents to hear that that like, it is not benign, to deny who your kid is, it is not benign in any way.

Samantha Spittle 41:32
I appreciate you sharing that. And that's been something that is just heavy on my heart, you know, with just losing people to suicide, you know, and you think and the teens struggling and and what's something you said in there, what I thought was really powerful, too, is that kind of identifying the ways you can support your child and their identity and their journey through that, but still also having your own boundaries, you know, but communicating that and communicating the support and whatnot. And, and I think to giving the child hope, for the future, you know, because you, we've talked about, there's certain times where we share and you know, whether it's coming out with a sexuality or identity. I mean, there's just so many things that when our kids tell us something like that, who knows, you know, it's ingrained in them and figuring out ways that yes, we can be supportive and loving, still have the boundaries?

Featherstone 42:29
Absolutely. You're always going to be their parent. And so it's always gonna be your job to give them boundaries about, you know, Kid things. Yeah. But this really recognizing that their concept of who they are is really not in your purview. Yeah, that is their wheelhouse, not yours, despite all the dreams that you've had for so many years.

Samantha Spittle 42:53
As we wrap up, I would love you mentioned the Trevor Project. And, you know, there's so there's so much resources out there, but there's also a lot of noise out there. And so once again, it's kind of my my view is regardless of your opinions of your personal opinions. As you beautifully said, your your child is not your child's identity is not your purview, did you say? So it's like, yes, regardless of that. So what are ways parents can educate themselves. So without it being worked out between them and their kid, and their kid being the one to educate them? What are some ways they can have besides listening to you in this podcast, but what are some other ways I feel like

Featherstone 43:39
there's a lot of great media out there. And peer support for parents. So back when I was a kid back in my day, PFLAG Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays was sort of like the commonly known nomenclature, like, Oh, she's got a PFLAG mom was like code for like, her mom is super supportive and like on board and educated, but I don't know that that's necessarily as current anymore. I think there's still an active organization, but a lot of times it's more local. I know in Idaho, they have the mama dragons who are like the supportive parents of trans and queer teens, because they talk about being like very protective and like, sort of aggressive towards people who are a threat, which I love. And I know you're in Northern Virginia. Well, we're not too far away here in Richmond, but we have side by side which used to be rose me and they have a lot of like support groups for queer and trans teens and young adults. And and they would know where to send parents so really looking for your local LGBTQ hub is really important for like, connecting and having social support both for young people and their parents. But one of the the movies I feel like really opened a lot of eyes It's sort of like a cult classic. It's called, but I'm a cheerleader. And it's about a group of teens who go to like a camp to fix some of their homosexuality. And it displays a lot of interesting family dynamics between these teens and their parents. And so I feel like that's a great place to start. There's also a more recent movie, because that's sort of an older one that's called Trans and Trump land that I've heard is very, very eye opening, and much more recent, I think, 2020 or 2021. That came out. So there's lots of media out there that talks about the transgender experience, interactions with family of origin. And that can be really eye opening for parents to recognize, like, the harm and the difficulty of, of the lack of acceptance for them to really examine how they respond. Thank you. Of course, thank you for having me.

Samantha Spittle 46:02
Like I said, I know we just, there's just like the tip of the iceberg. So thanks for letting us go in a million different directions because there's so many things we could talk about. So always I love opening up all the cans of worms. So good

Transcribed by https://otter.ai