Samantha Spittle 0:00
Well, I've always enjoyed our conversations. And I think that you have such unique insight because you have like this corporate background and this, you know, mom, wife background, this travel background, because I know you've taken off and explored the United States for some six months and three months, something you can guess. And so and then, you know, this whole journey to living simply and Uranus conversations, you know, it ended up going back to all the junk, we feel like, you know, we have the physical junk, but then it's tied into so much emotional. So I was like, Oh, this would be fun to, to start sorting out on the podcast. So why don't you tell us who you

Amy Slenker-Smith 0:43
are. Okay. So I'm Amy Slinker. Smith. And I have a company that's called simply enough, which I started in 2016. I left corporate after 19 years of consulting in finance, and contracts, and HR and recruiting and did all that in like the federal government space. And just when I think about my what is considered, I think, a professional organizing business, I would characterize myself more as a living simply consultant. But when I think about this business today, and I've may have said this to you before, it's a very different business than it would have been if I started it 20 years ago. So I've always had this idea, I've always been very organized, I've always been very neat. And made my bed every day as a kid kind of thing helped my friends clean their room, when their moms were yelling at them,

Samantha Spittle 1:38
you would have been my favorite I would, every sleep I had that friend, every sleepover, we cleaned my room. I love y'all, thank you, thank you for your service to all of your friends. People just need you

Amy Slenker-Smith 1:52
know, like, it's funny. There's a there's a friend of mine from elementary school, and she follows my stuff. And she says, you know, you really were the first person to help me clean up. And so it just seems like I was meant to do this. But if I had started this business a long time ago, it would have been more about, like, binning up all your stuff into neat little boxes and putting it away. And then two days later, which is probably what happened with my friends. Two days later, it just it just boomerang back to where it was. And what I learned. Basically, because I became a mom, what finally was that final catalyst was that I realized, like all the stuff, if I just had less of it, I wouldn't have to organize it as often I wouldn't have to organize it as much, I wouldn't have to take care of it, I wouldn't have to clean it, I wouldn't have to ensure it replaced batteries dusted. I hate testing. And if there was just less of it in my life, that I wouldn't have less of it to take care of. So. So when I started my business in 2016, it was after the journey of accumulating and then downsizing and getting rid of, and there were lots of different factors in my life, my health, my son, you know, the desire to travel to have more experiences, all of that I realized that something that was much more important to us as a family and much more important to me personally. And so the first thing I had to do was get rid of all the physical stuff that was was holding me back. And I was a really organized hoarder. Because I was, I was, yes, I was a collector of things. And I was collector of bins and boxes to hold all the things. And it was very organized. There was a lot of it though. And, um, life is just better with less, it really is a lot better with less.

Samantha Spittle 3:45
So if if people are like me listening to you describe that. I was sitting here thinking like, I want that. Yes, Amy like, I want that. And it's you think, you know, it's like, okay, I don't even know listen any more. I just I'm gonna go start decluttering and I'm what immediately popped into my head and which is why we're talking this on the flushing it out podcast, you know, season three, combating shame. revisiting this idea, because so much of our emotions are tied to our stuff. And I love how you said you were like an organized hoarder. And I feel like you know, I come from a family where it's like practical hoarding. Like, why would we get rid of these things? Because we might need them or if we have them, you know, where they've, you know, they haven't served their purpose yet, you know, and so it's all this logical stuff. Right? And then there's this whole kind of emotional well, and so you know, we're covering so many different shame topics this season. But you know, when I told you that we were doing appearance and body image in January, you you touched on some things that are tied to the emotion to your physical stuff, and then you know, as now we're, you know, entering parenting. And I'm thinking of, you know, with being a parent, you're being the head of your household, you're trying to set the example for your kids. And you set it you're trying to, you know, do more experiences with your family. And, you know, so much of what we do, I feel like with us, you know, women parents, whether employees, entrepreneurs, stay at home moms, all the different things, we have so much on our plates. And I feel like the literal stuff we have just gets literally pushed around. Yeah, because there's this whole emotional thing that we don't address. So I would love to dive into that with you today to kind of help us start untangling some of this emotional stuff we have around clutter.

Amy Slenker-Smith 5:43
Yeah, how we feel about it? Well, I think that so one of the things that I talked to groups about I talked to a lot of moms groups, and one of the things that I walk them through is my story. And I think that that's important for everyone to do, because your family of origin is going to be a huge part of how you deal with stuff it's going to be you're going to take it into your marriage. So it's going to be how you relate to your husband or your spouse, it's going to be how you relate to your children, because you're this family of origin. So staying in that saying just narrowly in the how I dealt with stuff. My mom was a collector of things, the example that she said was to collect and to have more. And some of that came from her. You know, her generation is a baby boomer, she watched the Depression era, keep all the things because we might need it someday. And scarce, it was that scarcity mindset. And so she adopted that. But what's interesting about family of origin, no matter what you're talking about, whether it's how you pay bills, and handle your finances, or how you deal with your stuff, or how you relate to your spouse, you'll do what I know about it, which is enough to be dangerous is you'll do one or two things like you'll mimic what you learned, or you'll do a complete 180. And so for many years, I mimicked what I learned. And then I reached this point in my life where I said, You know what, this is my journey. This is my family, this is my, my relationships. And I did a complete 180. So if you're familiar with like the The Five Love Languages, I was a gifts girl all the way like physical gifts, there were gifts for all the holidays, my mom leaves a store, and they owe her money. She is such a bargain shopper, and to her more was always more. And so that's kind of the philosophy I took into my marriage. I certainly treated my son that way when he was first born, it was about providing everything for him. And he's the only one and he's the firstborn. And he's all the things. So you can imagine what that volume looked like. But something like this flip the switch flipped, where I saw how the stuff was taking me actually away from the time with him. And I distinctly remember taking I just rewrote about it. I distinctly remember doing the daycare dash from work and picking him up. And then I was stopping at Target to run an errand. And I'm getting him out of the car. And it's and it's cold, it's rainy, and I'm thinking and I get inside. Finally get the car seat in the you know, in the cart, and I'm thinking, what am I doing? Like why? So I'm going to be here for 45 minutes gonna take me 15 minutes to check out. I'm going to get home at seven, I'm going to feed him dinner and put him to bed. And I honestly left the store. I pushed the cart away, I put him back in the car, I drove home. And it was that was the switch that flipped for me was do I want time with this infant that I worked three years to get in the first place? Because he was he was three years in the making. He's a he's an IUI baby, and or do I want random stuff at target that I'm going to fill up the shopping cart with that I'm going to put in the car, then I'm going to get out of the car then take into my home that have to find a place to store. And that's what I realized the stuff was doing to my relationship with my son. But keep in mind again, it's that family of origin that kind of brought me you know, to that that place.

And at that point, I started like I kind of had the moment you had at the beginning of this podcast. I had that moment of I'm just getting rid of it. I'm just I started decluttering and donating if it wasn't nailed down, it was not safe in my home. And I used to joke the only two things that were safe for Zach and Steve like my son and my husband and That was really true for a number of years that we just realized how little we really needed and how more importantly, how much the stuff was getting in front of, and getting in the way of the relationship that I wanted to have with my family, not just maybe Zack and Steve, but you know, my extended family as well. And my friends and all those relationships, when we say relationships are important in our life. I think they are. But when you look at your calendar, like, Are you are you spending time on those relationships? Or do you see like a trip to target and a trip to Saturday morning at Costco, and, you know, some online shopping while you're watching Netflix? Like what's what's really happening? What are you really spending your time on?

Samantha Spittle 10:50
Or caring for your home even like, if it's her rent cleaning, and I, my kids, you know, for Christmas, my daughter had on her Christmas list, a smaller room. And my son's been asking for a smaller room, like literally, he's been in tears. And we watched Harry Potter the other day. And I said, Do you guys want like a Harry Potter room? And they both said, yes. But you know what it is. And I I kind of have known this and listening to you now is totally confirming it. It's just too much stuff in their room. And so it's stressful, it's a mess. It's hard. And so they just want simplicity. And I have this struggle where, you know, I like that they have things to do. They mean, they make messes, because they're building at night and putting things together. And so this is the dilemma with parenting with all this clutter, where it's like I want them to have, right, you know, the freedom to do all the things, but it's just too much. And so here it is, like trying to have this nice relationship with my kids, you know, or have peaceful time at home. But it's spent what is up with this room? It's a mess again, and you know, it's like, are we really living? How can I move away from this? You know, as you're writing it, you What are we spending our time doing?

Amy Slenker-Smith 12:11
Yeah, and it's interesting, because there are 1000s of articles written on it. And I haven't written a blog post yet, but I certainly should. But there's lots of good writing out there about the fact that the fewer toys your kids have, the more they will play. Because they're smart enough to know that if they have a smaller space to take care of it will be easier that they'll be able to do more of the things they love, that mom won't get mad if they dump stuff out, because it creates more of a mess. So like the idea of one of those, you know, Pottery Barn, you know, nine boxes, with all the nice little canvas, baskets are great. But if all nine of those are dumped at the same time, which is what children are inclined to do, and that's just normal, that's where they are developmentally, yeah, they're not doing anything to be bad. It's just where they are. If they dumped them all, then it's too overwhelming for them to put it all back together. They need help from a parent parent is frustrated. But what if there were just like three of those bins instead, and how much more manageable that would be for for them. There are so many times where parents have told me that they cleaned up their kid's room and they took a bunch of stuff away as a punishment. And the child comes into the room the next day and says thank you, this is awesome. They don't see it as a punishment. Because what they now see is a space to play. So I've often I will often tell moms, you need a play room in your home, not a toy room. And there's a difference. A play room has room on the floor to spread out and play. And a big there's nothing wrong with a big room like your kids rooms may be the right size. Yeah, but if there is stuff so much stuff in their room, that it can be spread out and fill the entire floor. Like they just want to see the empty space stay empty, so that they can do the things that they can do.

Samantha Spittle 14:17
Keep the empty space empty. Oh my gosh, how often do we see? space physically? Emotionally, all of it. It's like, oh, there's space. Now I'm going to fill it. You know, right? I have time to go do more things I have. I have space to buy something else. I have emotional energy to tackle something else. It's like as soon as we have an availability Yeah, we fill it

Amy Slenker-Smith 14:39
right. And there's what I often what I always say to my clients, just keep in mind that empty space gives your eyes a place to rest. So when you're setting up a bookshelf, you know there was a time when when you could not even see the back of the bookshelves. I have bookshelves around my fireplace and you couldn't even see the back of them and Now, you know, having one item on a shelf for two or three items on a shelf, that's the norm. And it's, it's peaceful to walk into that room. And you you look at it different, you look at it so, so differently. Whereas in the past, it was organized, and the books were all lined up neatly and stacked, and there was order, but it was heavy. And it just felt heavy when you went into the room. And don't even get me started on the idea of having to dust that mess. And it's, you know, practically when people ask me, they they won't know where to start, they're looking at the whole house, I don't know where to start, I want to get they want to get on the other side, they want to be where I am, which did not happen overnight. So it will take some time. I mean, there were several years where I was driving car loads of stuff away from our house, I have, I have severe shame and embarrassment about my spending habits and how I could have, I could have done just so much better. And you know, financially, our family is in a much better place because of that, that occurrence, that change that occurred in us. But I just think about because I can't help but think about how much better we could have done. And and one of the things was that I will tell people if you really want to get started like stop shopping, stop one click Turn off one click disconnect the card. Oh, I saw a book that someone's reading. They said it's really good. Click on the phone one click order off it goes. But what if you put that in a wish list instead? What if you thought about it for a period of time? What if you waited for your birthday and ask for a Kindle gift card or asked for a gift card to buy it? What if you just waited until you were really ready to read it till you didn't have six bookshelves of books to read? That are haunting you, you know what if you first got down to the books you really want to read that you're truly interested in now. And you read those. And then, you know you did something like started a book club, which is the crazy thing that I did, too. I had a bunch of friends who were readers. And when I made that transition of I want to read more books, not own more books, that was another switch that flipped for me. I said, Okay, how can I get a copy of the book that we're reading, I can borrow it from one of my book club members, I can borrow it electronically, I can, you know, I can buy a copy and re and give it you know, gift it to someone just so many, like different ways. And now I read more than there was kind of this, I feel like there's this, this valley that I was in with all the cumulating and all the taking care of. I wasn't taking care of myself, you know, wasn't reading books anymore. I wasn't exercising, I wasn't prioritizing healthy meals. And it that's where the stuff just got in front of and got in the way of Yeah, so many things we make I make better financial decisions for it. So it is completely like life transforming. I can't say that, like loudly enough.

Samantha Spittle 18:21
Well, I'm so glad you did. Because you touched on all the shame you have over the spending habits. And and with all these shame triggers we have you know, I was even thinking, you know, if we have guilt, shame and guilt and whatnot over, not being around our kids, you know, because we're working too much. Or and when I say work I'm putting cleaning the house into that, you know, I'm putting, you know, all the things that we spend time doing, right? And if you peel back the layers of will, why are we doing it and I love that you started this conversation off with the family of origin. I feel like it's very odd brand for this fleshing it out stuff where it's like peeling back the layers is we're all like, we're all a product of our past, you know, and like you said, we either lean in double down on it, and we do it too. Or we go the complete opposite. And, you know, talking about the Great Depression, you know, my grandparents, you know, lived through the Great Depression. And so I saw their decisions were based on that. My parents were raised with that. And it's like, it's this trickle down. And there's this weird, like emotional connection. Especially when you kind of keep on keepin on because you respect their thought processes. You know, you've met certain things or, but sometimes we have to make the change because maybe it doesn't make sense anymore. Yeah. And I think I've told this on the podcast before but like, there I remember hearing the story. It's like about a pot roast, you know, in the recipe that the family uses in it. You cut off each side, and then you prepare it and you put it in the oven. And so the husband asked like, Well, why do you guys cut off the sides of the pot? Right? And so the woman's like, I don't know, that's just the way my mom always did it and so Oh, mom, and you know, go Yeah, Mom, why not? Like I don't know my mom did it so called the grandma like Grandma, you know with our yummy Patras recipe, why do we cut? You know what, why? What's the process? Why did we do that? Why do we cut off the sides? And she goes, because the pan I use the meat never fit. So I had to cut off the sides to make it fit. And I just remember like hearing that story. And I was like, Oh my gosh, how often do we just keep on keeping on. That's the way you know, we were raised. That's the way they did it. And it's like, stop the madness. Like, in the Depression, it made sense to save everything. And, you know, with my parents being army and living all over the place, oh, they sometimes lived hours away from, you know, like a grocery store. So it's like, you had to be stocked up and things like that. And so there's like a lot of things that it's like, oh, I don't have that circumstance, or I don't have that situation, why do I still hold on so tightly to those? I mean, then we get into thoughts and beliefs about lots of things in life, you know, beyond just the practical?

Amy Slenker-Smith 21:07
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it is interesting. And, and I always feel like, you know, I have to also give, I have sort of had to give my mom credit for the the generosity that she instilled. So that's, that's a very positive example, as well. So I see, you know, as a as a Nana, like how generous she is. And being the kind of person that I am now who's who's truly a minimalist, it's, that can be that's hard to manage. But I really do try to remember the generosity and I try to channel her generosity into in a way that helps us, you know, in a way that she creates a I want the relationship, so I want the relationship for her with my son. And so I really do try to channel that relationship for them. I mean, to this day, we've bought maybe like 20% of the kids clothing his entire life. Because she is she is always asking, What does he need? What can I buy? What can I pick up, and that is how she shows that love. And he sees it and he feels it. And so I don't I don't want to take that from her. But there is there are still boundaries that I think you can set that I think are healthy. And showing her the way that we live showing that example. And not just saying, Hey, I'm a new person. Now you have to do what I say. This was an evolution for me. And so she is, you know, following that same evolution. And I am setting a new example for her. And and that's a question I get from a lot of people like, I'm ready to do this. Now, how do I get my family on board? Yeah, what I do with these generous grandparents, and I always tell them like you have to, you've kind of set the example for a while you if you show them so much more, especially with our kids more is caught than taught. So late, they will catch on, they'll catch on that mom is much happier because mom got rid of like three quarters of look at that mom got rid of all her books. And she now she reads more. And now she plays games with us more because she's not so busy taking care of the house. Like they may not articulate it that way. And they may not say it to you, but they see it like they see the difference in you. They see the change. And, and they like it even if they're not able to express that I know my husband, when you know when I was starting down this path of decluttering. He, he I kind of got it with the stuff and I was doing that. But I was still filling my calendar beyond belief. And I was burning the candle at both ends from a work perspective, because I thought we were climbing the corporate ladder and we were getting the promotion and we were increasing the salary. And that's what we do. Right that's and then we buy more stuff and bring more stuff in and get a better house as a as your starter house. So

Samantha Spittle 23:59
now right to get the other house to grind more things. And

Amy Slenker-Smith 24:03
yeah, so you see where this goes. And the things that this is where I started to realize that my calendar was so full that it wasn't taking care of me. And so while I might have minimized some of the stuff in my home, I still wasn't prioritizing healthy meals. You were doing a ton of takeout I would rush home at 630 at night and we would throw together a quick dinner that was not of any health standard at all. And honestly, I didn't. I didn't really cook for like the first 15 years of my marriage because my husband's a great cook. So if I was in charge of dinner, it was typically takeout and I wasn't exercising. And it was when he said to me he's like, you know you're kind of self medicating with a half a bottle of wine every night and that's how he's right. And it just all of those things came then With a really bad series of probably six or nine months of bad migraines, and it was when I went into the hospital with such a bad headache that I, there was no other choice. And he looked at me and said, Okay, something has to change. And he wasn't saying get rid of more stuff. You haven't been decluttering. Enough. He was saying, let's pay attention. Now to you like, is there? Is there time on your calendar for you to exercise? Is there time when on your calendar for you to take a lunch break? Do you ever walk away from your desk, maybe getting home at a more reasonable hour, at least two nights a week, where we can sit down to a healthy meal like that was? He was he's the one who flipped that switch for me, in a good way, in a good way. He he said it to me in a way that I could hear it. Yeah. Because while I might not be dealing with all the stuff in my house, because I downsize that my wardrobe was pretty streamlined and whatnot. But stuff like you said earlier on comes in many different forms. And so the next evolution for me was my calendar. And it was making exercise a priority, making healthy meals a priority. And so that was just one more step that we took. And, financially, that had an impact too, because when you're doing lots of processed foods, or you're buying takeout, and you're going out to dinner, you're clearly not budgeting that. And so you can start to see where all of this gets really interwoven and intertwined. And it's just what I've learned over a number of years. So you won't learn it overnight. I hope you learn it faster than me. I hope anyone listening learns it faster than me, and doesn't make all the mistakes I made. Because I hope I've made them for them, and can help them see the connection. Definitely. Well, I

Samantha Spittle 26:59
have learned because I started this podcast with that exact goal in mind. And I've learned that we sometimes not sometimes pretty much all the time, have to go through it have to make the mistakes. But I do think that by sharing more of it, we do help expedite it. We help Yeah, move through it more quickly. Because I know that so much of what you talked about just resonate, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, I can't wait, I can't wait for the spring. I can't wait to do the Facebook, buy nothing groups and post all the stuff and give it all the way. But that feeling will fade because I'm not in conversation with you. Which is why you know, I'll need to make a note to go back and listen to this episode. Yeah, because it is it's so much more than stuff. And we have all these feelings, you know, wrapped around, like you said, the spending habits, the condition of our homes, you know, even like it goes on and on and on. And I think that, you know, having practical solutions, knowing that you're not the only one definitely helped us move forward.

Amy Slenker-Smith 27:56
I want to just hit on the one thing you said about, hey, I want to wait for the spring. And I'm going to do I'm going to I'm going to in the spring, I'm going to do this so often, I think because the idea of decluttering your whole home is overwhelming. Unless you're someone like me who thrives on it. Yeah, it's completely overwhelming to anyone who's not in my line of work. But I think that's because I can see your home in small projects, I can see small spaces that you can work your way through. And so and even when you're quote unquote, done decluttering your whole house, there is still a maintenance mode, there's it's much easier, that's that's the my life now, it still exists, I'm still donating things, we're still removing things from our home. There's still things coming in, there's this constant cycle. So I would just challenge you to, you know, a box a week, just even a box a week, a carload a week, if some number that feels achievable, is is gonna start to make a difference in your home. And so a lot of people I think, feel like they have to have this whole weekend free once I have a free weekend, which never happens if you're a mom. And then I'll clean up the garage. Once I have a whole weekend, then I'll clean out the closet, you know, and I don't think that's necessarily true. So yeah, that's a beautiful way to kind of wrap up everything how all of our stuff can trigger these shame stories. And we have the power to change them.

Samantha Spittle 29:34
We have the power to get rid of them. Amy, thank you so much for sharing your insight.

Amy Slenker-Smith 29:39
Thank you for having me. I am I'm sure we could talk for hours. And I would I would love to and I'm so honored that you would ask me to do this. So thank you for having me.

Samantha Spittle 29:49
And I how can people find you how can they learn more? You know about you in the services you have? And I know you have a course that people can take so can you tell us real quick how they can

Amy Slenker-Smith 29:59
yeah Yeah, absolutely thank you for that opportunity. I appreciate it. So simply enough.net is my website, you can find me there I am on Instagram and Facebook, predominantly. And I have a course called simply start, which is launching in late January. So if you're interested in learning about that, it is a five week course and it gets you started on decluttering your home, it gets you thinking about why it is you want to do it in the first place. And that's kind of like the first step like what what are your goals and probably from this podcasts and people have, this is why I want to do it. And so that is a another way that they can learn more about me and again, that's on my website, simply enough.net

Samantha Spittle 30:47
So great. Thank you so much, Amy.

Amy Slenker-Smith 30:49
All right. Thanks.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai