Samantha Spittle 0:00
You know, parenting, it's funny when you have kids like babies, you know, it's so in your world, it's your whole life. And I remember when my daughter was born and just thinking, this is my whole life, I'm never going to have a break. I'm never going to be away from this. And now, you know, with her being in middle school, that like, this is truly fleeting, you know, they're not little forever. But it is this parenting, these 18 years that we're with our kids. It's funny, like it impacts the rest of their life and our life because they become adults in the relationship changes. And we talked about that on the first podcast about how, you know, you being a parent to adult children now and how the phases change. And you said something recently online that sparked my interest, which is parenting with regrets. And so I would love to dive into that. Today, Dawn, so why don't you introduce yourself?

Dawn Geschiere 0:59
Well, I am Dawn give shear, and I'm an empowerment life coach. And I focus really on coaching women in particular, although I definitely coach some men as well. And the women I coach mostly happened to be mamas or have that Mama's heart somehow, at their core. And since I'm a mama to five amazing young adults, I am drawn to empowering mamas and particularly empowering mama bears to be Mama Bear, not only to their kids, which comes naturally for so many of us, right as parents, but to be mama bears for themselves. That's what really gets me jazzed. So the idea of parenting with regrets that is become so clear to me over the years, that this idea, we're not going to have regrets, we're gonna have no regrets. Even the saying no regrets is just ridiculous. It's absolutely messed up. And it takes us into this guilt and shame around our parenting because every single mistake we make, every time we wish that we had done something differently, we recognize we just screwed it up. And oh, this guilt that comes in. And we're, we're regretting it. And then it's followed by I don't want any regrets. No regrets. Because the culture around us as you know, the ideal is to get to the end of this parenting journey, whatever that is, which it really never ends, but get to the the part where they're raised, and we don't have any regrets. Well, that's impossible.

Samantha Spittle 3:18
And it sets us up for I think, a little bit of that toxic positivity, culture or you know, mindset where it's no regrets, okay, this thing happened. But I'm going to find the good. And I'm a big believer in good can come out of the really bad stuff. But there's a lot of emotions and anger. And blindly this no regrets, you know, mindset just feel like for at least me encourages us to just shove all the stuff down.

Dawn Geschiere 3:48
So we stuff it all down. And then we expect that it's all okay. And we're making our way back toward no regrets, where we're suddenly finding the learning in what we did wrong. And we've recognized it now. And so we're going to get closer to no regrets. It's like there's this expectrum sort of thing. And, you know, wherever you're falling with the amount of regret you're in right now. But you can move yourself closer to the end of the spectrum that says no regrets. And that's just ridiculous. We have to stop living with the thought that either we're going to have no regrets, or we're going to have a shit ton of regrets. Mm hmm. So we think that there's this, this either or right and of course, it's not. There's we're never going to reached the place where we're parenting. And we're doing it all with no regrets.

Samantha Spittle 5:08
So I'm wondering, and I may be repeating myself, but it's is living in a no regrets parenting mindset, setting ourselves up for disaster when it comes to connecting with our children. Yes. And can you explain that more because I was gonna explain what I meant by that. But I would actually love to just have you dive into what does that mean? Yeah, I

Dawn Geschiere 5:31
cut you off at night. But that's okay. Because my immediate response was, Well, yes, we're absolutely setting ourselves up. And we're believing something that just isn't true. It's not real. So yes, it's that toxic positivity you were talking about, where you think that you can get to this place where everything's just okay. And, and I'm going to, I'm going to parent with no regrets. And I'm going to reach this magical place where, you know, I really have arrived. And so each time we wallow, in the shame or a regret, instead of just listening to it, and being with it, like, even allowing ourselves to just go, oh, oh, what did I do? What did I just say to my child? Mm hmm. Where did that come from? And, and we can't take the words back. We know that. And we can't, we can't undo. But if we don't sit with the fact that, wow, I just really act this up. I hurt my child, they see it on their face. Or I see the fallout from it. From what I was saying, or the path I took I Yeah. Why did I do that? If we don't just allow ourselves a bit of time with it? And know that? Yeah, there's regret. I regret it. And it's okay that I regret it. Because, yeah, I know better. I shut off. And now I'm going to listen to my regret. I'm going to listen to what it's telling me. What's it showing me. And I'm not going to feel shame around it, or at least not for very long. And I'm not going to sit and wallow in some sort of guilt. And try to overcompensate for it with my child. But instead, I'm gonna let that regret, become my teacher. It's showing me something. It's telling me something. And so when I get the chance, and it's usually not in that moment, at all, because parenting is so much on the fly, right? But when I get the chance to sit and process it, then I can own it, process it, be with it. If I'm feeling guilty over it, I can I can let myself feel guilty, and then see what it teaches me and move on and learn and figure out a better way. And hopefully I can circle back with my child, if they're old enough if if they can even have the conversation if they're developmentally there. And I can say, you know, I saw your face. When I said this. I think I hurt you. I think I messed up. What do you think? Was that what I was seeing on your face? What's going on? Do you want to talk about it again? And they might say no, they might have moved long past it, which is another reason not to focus on no regrets and making that the goal of our lives is to have no regrets.

Samantha Spittle 9:46
When I was listening to you when you said Let regret be my teacher, I thought it's brilliant. And so uncomfortable. And this goes back to the old My gosh. So you're telling me that when we are unpacking shame and all of this growth and healing stuff, once again, we have to get comfortable getting uncomfortable, because it really sucks to sit in regret and guilt. And and that's the thing, like, it's the not letting the shame takeover but that these feelings of regret and guilt aren't a bad thing in and of themselves. Because those are healthy emotions that show your empathy, you know, in your connection to others. And I just I love that idea of letting them be your teacher, you know, befriending those things instead of running from them.

Dawn Geschiere 10:42
Yeah, and they don't just, they don't just lead us to empathy, but they're actually they're actually our teachers in the sense that they reveal our humanity. I mean, for one, if we're human beings, and we get this child arriving in our lives, even if we wanted that child passionately, this, this little person arrives, and we're responsible for them, and for their well being. But we're human. And we're flawed. And we're going to mess it up. So if we set ourselves up with the expectations that there is a right way to parent, yes, a perfect way to do this. Mm hmm. And right about now, I'm picturing a lot of mamas saying to themselves, well, oh, yeah, I agree with you. There's no right way, no perfect way of doing it. But I'm curious around whether those same mamas actually do hold somewhere in their being in the back of their minds in themselves. This belief that there is a right way, and a wrong way, that there is a good way to do this in a bad way to do this. There's parents out there living in a binary world where it's either or. And it's not a yes. And, yes, there are good ways to parent our kids. There are marvelous things we can do as parents are much healthier things we can do as parents, there's a healthier path. But to live with this, either or, in fact, I've been thinking so much about this no regrets thing. And I've been thinking, Do we understand that our parenting is just one big science experiment or a series of science experiments? That's what it is. It's trial and error. It's science experiments, where sometimes you have the right control the right variables. You know, sometimes you set up the experiment, and wow, you get the data and the results, and it goes well, and sometimes it just doesn't happen the way you hoped.

Samantha Spittle 13:38
Nope. And I know for a fact that there are parents out there, because I am one of them. Because as you were talking, I was like, yep, preached on. There's no right way. There's no right way. And then you know what my brain immediately did it said, Yeah, that's true. But Sam, these are the ways you really are screwing up your parenting, the, er, there's no right way. But studies have shown that if you eat at the dinner table every night together, well, I my family's always eating. We're and also we're in a pandemic, I have to give myself a little grace, but my brains already keeping a tally sheet of all the ways that I'm not doing it. Right. And so, for someone that has read the books, you know, when the kids were young for someone who reaches out to mentors, someone who started a podcast to get all this wisdom and grace and, and insight especially, I mean, this isn't this is universal, not just parenting. This is like living life that there is not one exact path and I feel like that's like the message that so many parents need to hear, you know, we we go into it we search the blogs or the podcasts or anything looking for the answers. And I mean, it almost sounds like the the corny movie, you know, like it's in you all along, but By Dang it, it's true. You know, with our kids, each of our kids are different, like you said, with the science experiment. I mean, it goes to show how kids raised in the same home. Same kids are I mean, different kids, but they turn out different. And I'm understanding more and more, it's like, oh, because what what works for one might not work for the other. One might need more tender care, one kid might need you to talk about the way you let them down and hurt them and wants to process it. And the other one, if you did that, to them, that would be too much like, we need to, oh, we need to be moldable.

Dawn Geschiere 15:36
And it can change on any given day, what they need and what they want, and where they're at. Because they're whole people right there. Yeah, they're their own entities separate from us. And they have their own needs and wants, and personalities and styles and reactions. And we do too. And both of us matter. What we're experiencing, and feeling and thinking matters and what they're thinking and feeling matters. And so together, you get these separate human beings that are coming together in this very dependent relationship at first. But just because there's a dependency that they have on us, because they're little, and they're developmentally not ready for some things, that's very different than understanding that they're still a separate being. With this, I believe this god given amazing Ness, their creativity, their, their stunning selves. And we're getting to guide and parent them on their journey, but they're separate from us. And they're gonna mess it up, we're gonna mess it up.

Samantha Spittle 17:24
I'm just now realizing that you're describing my life, because I. So I remember when people would say things like, I am not who I was 10 years ago, that, for most people might be a beautiful thing to hear, Oh, it's wonderful, you're not the same, you're constantly growing and changing. And, you know, here I am talking about, you know, part of this whole thing is growing. But if I'm being honest, I from very early on, almost as much as I wanted to remember. I wanted to be who I thought I should be, like, at the end of it all. Like, so as you know, as teenage Sam, she's as wise as current day, Sam, you know, I don't I don't want to be less wise or less smarter. And when I mean wise, I don't mean necessarily intelligence. I mean, like, having life figured out or something, you know, and then knowing that I don't have it figured out. Because that's the right thing to say, right? Because I know that I'm not supposed to have life figured out. But I really have, you know, and, you know, part of a lot of the stuff that I've walked through the last couple years, I realized that a big part of my shame story was, Oh, my life now has regrets, we'll use that term, because that's kind of what we're talking about today. The term I've used is like, you know, black marks or something or red marks, you know, the way you would mark up like a paper, you know, my English major self, you know, your, your edits and stuff. And it's like, Oh, I was trying to get out of this life, with the least amount of corrections on that. And what a stressful place to live in. And now with the lens of parenting, the question that popped into my head while you were talking was, if we're living with regrets, or striving, I should say if we're striving to live our life without regrets, which could also be known as failures. What message are we sending to our kids? Because kids are going to screw up, right? Yeah.

Dawn Geschiere 19:33
And you said the word striving? Mm hmm. And any time we're striving for anything. Some people think of that as a wonderful word, right? Striving, persisting, persevering, enduring, endurance, striving, working hard. But there's an element there's a side to striving that is really, really dangerous, and it's harmful to us. And it's, it means an uptight parent. And it even brings this sense of pressure and stress to a child if they pick up on it, which they usually do. Yep. Oh, yeah. So our kids pick up on the fact that we have in mind that they're going to turn out, right, that that they've got these outcomes we're looking for. And our kids have in mind that in our parenting, we want to do it right, with as few regrets as possible or no regrets, ideally. And so they pick up on that stress that pressure, and life becomes a striving for something that doesn't even exist, something that's not even attainable or possible. But more importantly, life becomes so much hard work in parenting, that we're not having fun with it. That we're not leaning into what shows up, are we really present to our kids, if we are trying to always respond correctly, even in the moment. So it's this, it's this goal that, you know, kids come to us and for when they surprise the hell out of us all the time. They say and do things, they're unpredictable. And instead of letting that arrive into the space with us, and just stepping back and leaning in to this sense of, Oh, you just said that. You just did that, and reacting. And then immediately regretting and trying to fix it, and scrambling to take back what we just think we screwed up. What if we just stay present? Both humans both messy. And we just lean into our kids. And we kind of trust the process of just working through whatever happening between us. Whatever miscommunication we just had, whatever we thought they were going to do. And then they didn't Dennett disappointed us, and so we react and but then we regret how we reacted. It just becomes this frenetic thing and this pressure, sometimes I just want to sit with Mama's and I do this on Monday nights with my Monday Mama's actually, I just want to sit with them. And just hold the space with them. Like a hug. Even if they're not a hugger. Just hold the space, and just let them be with their regrets that day. Let them be with their tiredness from wanting to be such a great mama. Because it's okay to want to be a great mama. I mean, really, I wanted to be a great mama. Still do. I still do. And I sometimes still have regrets. We just had our five home all together for the first time in two years. We were all under the same roof.

And I wanted it to be wonderful and amazing. Every minute, I could feel it. I can just feel this, this romantic idealized goal of oh, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. And we're going to it's going to be so wonderful and and what if some so and so, is in a bad mood? Or what if this or what if that? Or what if this ruins it. And then COVID happened to one of them. And now what if and you just realize that when they all leave again to go to their respective homes? I'm sitting here and yeah, I have some regrets about little moments about some things that I wish we had done differently in responding when when one of them got COVID. Yeah, I have regrets. And that's okay. Because I also have amazing memories. And I also have those Joy moments and the they're all mixed together. It's all part of the deal. And I wouldn't have traded, having them all home for anything. And I'm so grateful for it. But to look back and say, I don't have any regrets about anything that happened while they were home. That's just bullshit. But to sit with shame over the regrets I have. So instead, those regrets have become my teachers.

Samantha Spittle 25:33
And that's what I was going to ask you is the flip side, you know, in the beginning, we talked about avoiding this no regrets mentality because it keeps us from living in reality. And so you just so beautifully said that in with talking about your kids coming home, like you are looking at what really happened instead of this dream world where there's no regrets, it was a perfect time with everyone home because everyone, if you've got a family, you know that it's never just all wonderful. And so, being okay, with regrets, it's staying in reality, but then how do you not stay there? And you started to touch upon it with how do you not get overwhelmed with the shame because that's the thing I think so many people live in this no regrets and don't want to face it with the uncomfortableness like we talked about earlier. You know, we don't want to sit in the uncomfortableness and so you talked about letting shame be our teacher. And so what are some maybe practical ways people can start sitting with regret embracing befriending the regret letting it be your teacher, and then moving out of that place? And for me, I always think about it as like a mud pit and kind of meeting, you know, trying to get out and it just you're you're climbing and climbing and you're sinking back in. And that rope, whether that's medication for mental health, that if that's the by usual example, but you know, what, what's that rope that we can kind of be in the mess beyond the uncomfortableness but then move forward?

Dawn Geschiere 27:00
Yeah, that's a great question. I love that question. And something you said, you said, that we can be with our shame, and sit with it. And I want to reframe that if I may a little bit to not not be with our shame, because I think when our shame shows up, if it's if it's really shame, versus guilt, yeah. If it's really shame, and sometimes those two are hard to differentiate, and I think we easily slide into shame. But when shame shows up, I don't think we want to spend very long in it. They're pretty connected. And guilt can sometimes be unproductive. And it can be, or it can be just this place we start to wallow in and we get stuck in it like you were talking about with the mud.

Samantha Spittle 27:54
Well, I think that's why this no regrets is so appealing. Because if you because regret gets you close to that place. So I guess that's like what the question is, regret feels like you're knocking on the door to guilt and shame. Yeah. So how do you stay in the regret place to to let it be your teacher? Without getting into that? Guilt and shame?

Dawn Geschiere 28:17
Yeah. So here's one of my regrets when they were home. We were having this conversation with my daughters and I, a couple of my daughters and I and we were, we were in this conversation. And one of my daughters just kind of said something off the top of her head about the past and times when I would make them feel guilty when they came home for time spent up in their rooms alone. And that, that they experienced me as pressuring them. Even if I didn't say it, they felt pressure to always hang out with the family to always be with them. And I didn't perceive myself that way. anymore. I definitely don't feel that way anymore because I've become more and more of a loner and I love my solitude. And I even got triggered and I'm using that in a very broad sense, of course, but I was just immediately like, what I did not I could not Oh, oh shit. And oh, that's terrible and regret showed up. Then the more I was able, I reacted at first and then we had this little rub of a conversation because we're really good at that. My daughters and I are really good at talking through stuff. And the men all just in our family anyway. The guys in our family just sort of walk away quietly and wait till it's over. And we like working through it. We like processing it,

Samantha Spittle 30:11
you're comfortable being uncomfortable.

Dawn Geschiere 30:13
We really are. Yeah, pretty much. So I regretted it. And that particular regret allowed me later, because we didn't spend a lot of time on it then. But later, I was able to process through it both in my journaling, and reflect on it, and self reflect on it. And I acknowledged to myself, even I owned it, and I was able to say, Yeah, I never thought about when I was being this mama bear gathering all her cubs home and wanting every minute, greedily, just owe more and more, more, I didn't, I didn't think about the impact on them, and how they might need their own time apart from this busy, full bunch of seven people all in the same small room, and space, and how they might need time to process their own shit, and be a part and get their solitude. And I felt selfish and greedy, and all the things. But as long as I didn't stay there, as long as I didn't live there, in that world of regret, the regret that I felt, taught me new things gave me new insights. And now moving forward, is going to really end it already did this visit. It changed the visit. Because I understand now like, how I came across, and how they were experiencing me. And it taught me something. And all that to say for the mamas listening who have little ones, there are 1000 moments every day, where we're gonna do something and later think, ooh, I wish I hadn't. But if we can just say, alright, is it a big deal? Is it a big regret? And is it a pattern? was with me, that would have been a pattern in the past that particular regret. And now what's it teaching me? What's it showing me? And it's going to move us forward, and we're going to be better off for it even. Because somehow that discomfort and you know, our humanity and our relationships that get so messy, we're able to stay in it. Stay in the discomfort long enough to say, Oh, hmm, I do regret that. But I'm kind of glad this popped up. Because it showed me something I hadn't seen before. It's my teacher. Now. There's this saying I've always loved I heard it first in the King and I, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Mm hmm. And I think our regrets are our teachers, if we let them be

Samantha Spittle 33:43
you talking about your daughter's and what they shared with you. And the way you kind of wrapped it up, I thought that is a beautiful tie in and kind of our loopback, if you will, as we wrap it up with when I asked you does it help build stronger connections with your kids, when you live with regrets? And so as you were talking, I thought, Oh, what a beautiful wrap up. One reason you have been, you know, such a beautiful friend and mentor and VIP is kind of this. It's the long gaming and where it's that you know, a healthy relationship with my kids when they're adults. You know, that's because I want to raise them not the right way because there's not a right and wrong even though my brain tries to tell me there is. But it's that connection, you know, wanting them wanting to feel connected to them now and wanting to feel connected to them later with a healthy detachment, which we talked about in a previous episode. But back to the connection. When I was listening to your story about your daughters, I thought what a gift we can give our children because when they see us modeling, healthy attachments, as well as healthy regrets, where we don't sit in the guilt and the shame where we allow regret to be our teacher. It gives them the freedom to communicate. And then we're able to have emotional intimacy and emotional intimacy. It's having real connections, having real conversations about how we're feeling. And we're not going to get out of this life unscathed without any regrets, or as I said, before, you know, like the marks on the paper, and hiding it or trying to believe that we need to always turn it into something wonderful, I think just keeps us living in that superficial place instead of digging deep,

Dawn Geschiere 35:34
yes. And if I may, I would love to say to the mamas and or Papas out there, that being able to take a few minutes in the morning to look at the day and be super intentional with what you're hoping for that day, with how you're doing that morning, and in taking some intentional time for yourself in the morning is critical. But then understanding that any intentions you had could all blow up in your face, and the day could go nothing like you thought it would. And getting to the end of the day. And what if you just take a few moments at the end of the day, no matter how tired you are, and just jot down your regrets from that day. I regret this. I regret that. And just jot down a few things, especially the things that are just still sitting with you by the time you go to bed. Name it. Yeah, and they won't bite you. But just write them down. And then just find a way right before you go to sleep to look at them. Okay, tomorrow's a new day. And here are my teachers moving forward. Thank you, teachers, and do whatever practice you need to do to then let go of any lingering guilt or shame that shows up just a few minutes reflection, because you're so worth it. You're so worth it to take that time.

Samantha Spittle 37:06
Beautiful. Dawn, thank you so much for sharing today. And I know that you have some really great things going on. So if parents or anyone parents at heart, but have that parent heart that you talk about to get in touch with you to join your community. How can they do that?

Dawn Geschiere 37:25
Oh, there's a lot of different ways but for mamas in particular I have a group of Monday mamas, there's a Facebook group for anyone a community open to all. And then every Monday night I meet with a group of mamas who are member mamas to it. And that's just a small paid subscription. And they pay each month as they go. And they show up with me on Monday nights. And it's group coaching around various topics. And it's not a space where we come together and figure out how to problem solve or give each other a lot of parenting advice. It's a place where they get to just be people, women, moms, Mama's and we deal with topics that grow us all, and get us all thinking, and we share together life. And it's amazing. And then they can also email me dawn at YT L which is yes to life coaching.com. They can also reach out to me I have a website YTL coaching.com. And I have also started a Caring Bridge page when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, that's surprisingly become quite the Journal of around my breast cancer journey. But it's also just a way for us to realize how to work through really hard things and find whatever resources and strength show up for us and drawn on all of them meant to live intentionally. Because what I want for mamas is to live intentionally, but also to then when things go awry. Be able to take whatever comes along, like breast cancer and resource ourselves. So those are some places they can find me and I love having conversations with Mama's, so there's a scheduling link that they can find on if they go to my Instagram account. They'll click on the link, and they'll be able to click on the scheduling link and just set up a chat time with me. I'd love that. Either 30 minutes of just connecting over coffee, or whatever beverage you choose, and or they can set up a sample coaching session, if they want to get a sense of what empowerment coaching is all about.

Samantha Spittle 40:36
I love that. Thank you, Don, thank you for sharing, of course, all of your beautiful insight and wisdom after raising and continuing to be a mama of five adult children and your powerful resources with your Monday Mama's group and your coaching. I know that it just changes it changes not only the moms but their families too. It makes such a big impact. So thank you so much.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai